Curse

VishnuOdin · Feb 12, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I tried a few attribute variations last night to try to understand why having a higher curse level is important, and I have a few questions because I'm either doing something wrong or going about this the wrong way.

First, I swapped out Soul Feast and replaced it with Mark of Pain. Did a few rounds in the Frozen Forest and I can see why this was recommended. Cast MoP on the mob the tanks hitting, then use SS on nearby mobs. My new rotation is: MoP (tank mob), SS (nearby mob), IP (different nearby mob), cast direct damage spells or spawn some pets then repeat.

I can't find a trainer that will sell me Barbs, tried in Drok's and Gunnar's Hold. I missed SF, every once and a while I need it to avoid dying and sending my minions into a crazed fit against my team.

Under the right circumstances Fire Storm did over 200 damage, but with certain mob types they'd break before it really hit it's full potential. I don't want to play all curses or I feel like a glorified Mesmer with health drains. For me this isn't fun, I need some direct damage spells to enjoy the game. I'm starting to wonder if I should have gone Elementalist as my primary and Necromancer as my secondary.

Anyway, after seeing what the above rotation was capable of I decided to drop fire and see what happened. So I changed my attributes and skills to the following;

3 Blood Magic (filler, few extra seconds on skills)
16 Death Magic (w/ Superior Rune)
10 Soul Reaping (w/ Minor Rune)
10 Curses (w/ Minor Rune)

[Mark Of [email protected]][Spiteful [email protected]][Insidious [email protected]][Deathly [email protected]][Snow Storm][Soul [email protected]][Animate Bone [email protected]][Glyph Of Lesser Energy]

When I bought my new gear I put the 25% corpse insignia and superior rune both on my head slot, so if I need or want to change it later I just have to replace one piece, or can keep a second one modded differently. Other then that I bought all health insignia's and runes.

Snow Storm seems to work quite well, shorter CD, same energy, and doesn't seem to cause as much scatter. The friend I play with wasn't on so I'm not sure how this will work with Meteor, the knockdown of her spell is what really made Fire Storm shine before.

I like this build, it's fun, I still have lots of pets and I still get to cast direct damage spells. But, I'm finding it slower then my previous build. I'm not really sure how to explain this properly but here goes.

Before;
Say there are 15 enemies. I'd concentrate on 3-4 at a time, drop each group quickly, and move on to the next. This way there aren't too many things all attacking me at once and only used Soul Feast as a last resort.

Now;
I wear down all 15, so I have to use Soul Feast a lot more, which means less pets. On some mob's this build is much faster, and more efficient. But the entire zone I'm in right now is a Winter zone. Fire spells did way more damage then cold damage (my only direct damage spells left). I haven't been to the jungle portions of Eye of the North yet but this is why a build like this worries me. Since more enemies are alive longer (albeit they almost all die at once), I find myself far more fragile then my previous build. I also gain energy in large spikes, before it was more uniform.

Questions;
Is it really possible to use a solid Curse build through the entire game? How often do you change your skills / attributes? I'm starting to wonder if trying to come up with one skill / attribute set for everything is ever going to work, and I should start creating sets for each type of zone.

Keeping in mind that I really like pets, need a few direct damage spells, an do not want to play a solid curse build, are there any changes to my build you could recommend? Or pointers?

I apologize if I was a bit snippy in my other thread, but please explain your changes and reasons why. Yes I'm a noob, and yes your build is probably better then mine. But don't negate what you went through to get there. That made you the player you are today. I don't want to skip steps and go straight to someone else's build, I want to make the same mistakes you did so I learn from them. Constructive criticism is always appreciated, but it's hard to not get defensive you feel like your being told how to play.

Thanks,

[edit] Forgot I should have mentioned I only own Prophecies and Eye of the North. [/edit]

jiggles · Feb 12, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Drop the death magic if you want to make an improvement. Take more pve skills only, [finish him][ebon vanguard sniper support] etc. Theres really no benefit in going blood/death/ curses. It is entirely possible to go through the entire game without changing your bar or equipment, solong as you have the right party members. I know you said you couldnt find barbs, but find it. Do that and you have yourself a pretty standard bar. Also gole isnt that needed. with a higher soul reaping you should have MORE than enough energy solong as you can make red bars go down.

Wyndy · Feb 12, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I run a straight curses build with some eotn skills for fun. It looks like you can purchase barbs at Ember Light Camp, but would need a capture signet in Riverside or Sanctum Cay to get it NOW! Unfortunately, the straight damage skill I use against hexed foes is Necrosis and that in Nightfall. Keep it in mind should you get NF. Barbs would be huge with a minion army. I sometimes dont bother with ss if my army is big enough and echo barbs instead. Pain Inverter for the big damage dealers and Ebon Assasin/ barbs for the monk

I am a stick in the mud when it comes to changing skills so I have run the same ss build throughout all 4 campaigns. I know, that sounds boring, but I stick with what works.

VishnuOdin · Feb 12, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

I have a few of the Ebon skills, and I found a trainer in Camp Rankor that has Barbs. Tonight I'll try swapping out Glyph of Lesser Energy for Barbs and Soul Feast for Ebon Assassin and Sniper Support.

What do you guys do if something jumps you? The Jade Armor guys pack a nasty punch, I usually target them with my hero's and try to run for cover but with the slowdown it's really hard to stay alive without using SF. I read something about having your armor infused, is that a permanent buff or just for the mission?

Thanks for the replies!

Icy The Mage · Feb 12, 2009, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Dont bother taking minions in the Maguuma Jungle, you'll get them all stolen. Just a word of advice

Xenomortis · Feb 12, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

It's worth noting that a some enemies in the shiverpeak areas have reduced armor against fire damage. In those locations on Normal mode, Fire damage will appear to be powerful, but as you progress through the game, it will weaken.

It is possible to use only Curses throughout the game. It is easily the most powerful line for a necromancer and one of the most powerful lines in the game. I can go through most areas and missions, even in Hard Mode with my current SS build, so it is good. What's more, is that it's not even the most powerful build open for a necromancer.
You seem to fail to understand that the necromancer doesn't excell in direct damage dealing spells, but more than makes up for it with the damaging effects from skills in the Curses line - you said it yourself, Mark of Pain is powerful. It's more than being a glorified mesmer, as the two professions play differently.

If you really want minions, then find a split between Death Magic, Curses and Soul Reaping. You don't need direct damage spells, but if you insist, avoid things from the Death Magic line as they deal cold damage. Defile enchantments would be better, but can only be used occasionaly. Waste of a slot though in my view.

Normally I'd go on and answer each point seperatly, but I'll be repeating a lot of what I said in your previous thread and I'm really tired.

Wyndy · Feb 13, 2009, 12:35 AM // 00:35

When I first started out as a necro, I thought being an mm was ok. After getting an mm hero though, I found that they could build up an army faster than I could and left me free to deal damage constantly. Also, it let me have 16 in curses, so the 16's and 37's from barbs and ss fill the screen and make me say WAHOO!

s73ve_o · Feb 13, 2009, 04:03 AM // 04:03

to be honest if you are really that hellbent on making a build that deals direct damage i recommend you quit the necro and take up ele before you waste too much of your time. The necromancer is not all about direct damage. It is about things like making an army of minions and letting them do some good damage AND be a tank, or hexing your foe to make him completely noneffective and usually damaging to his own allies and himself. It is one of the most effective classes you can play in my opinion, but only if you play it the way it was really meant to be played, and the necromancer just was not designed with nukes in mind. Also i recommend you try to stay in 1-2 attribute areas + soul reaping, makes builds much more effective overall.

Anwyn · Feb 13, 2009, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Something I've been having alot of fun with lately is [Barbs][Mark of Pain][Assassins Promise][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support]

Now I know you don't have Factions, so [Assassins Promise] is out for you... But still, [Mark of Pain] + [Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] is still very cool...

Replace [Assassins Promise] with [Spiteful Spirit] instead...

Also, drop death... As a necro you need to choose, death, curses or blood... Mixing the three is a no go... Full Curses easily owns a mix between the three...

VishnuOdin · Feb 13, 2009, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Did some more test runs last night, using this;

3 Blood Magic (this is only 3 because I have leftovers and can't up anything else)
16 Death Magic (w/ Superior Rune)
10 Soul Reaping (w/ Minor Rune)
10 Curses (w/ Minor Rune)

Mark Of Pain
Barbs
Spiteful Spirit
Insidious Parasite
Deathly Swarm
Snow Storm
Ebon Assassin (don't have Sniper yet)
Animate Bone Horror

Wow, pouring out damage left right and center. Barbs w/ minions and Ebon Assassin obilterate's things faster then I could ever have imagined. When I'm moving around I don't have any energy mangement issues, but on longer boss fights when things aren't dying I'm having trouble maintaining energy. When I do solo battles I swap Animate Bone Horror for Glyph and MoP with Gaze (move points from DM into Blood).

I haven't tried it, but what do you think about me using two Superior Runes? A build like this came to mind;

16 Death Magic (w/ Superior Rune)
7 Soul Reaping (w/ Minor Rune)
14 Curses (w/ Superior Rune)

Mark Of Pain
Barbs
Spiteful Spirit
Insidious Parasite
Deathly Swarm
Snow Storm (swap for glyph?)
Ebon Assassin (swap for glyph?)
Animate Bone Horror

Then swapping something out for Glyph of Lesser Energy. I ran with 7 SR before and as long as I have Glyph I'm fine. Currently I'd end up with around 435h, I ran with less for a long time and still need to upgrade my Rune of Vigor (I only have +30h). I could also swap out my Insightful Staff head for a +22h head I have saved. Problem is I can't figure out what to remove. I'm leaning towards Ebon Assassin or Snow Storm, DS has a shorter CD then Snow Storm and doesn't cause scatter. Ebon Assassin has a really long CD, but with Barbs it packs quite a punch.

I know Hero's make better MM's and bombers, but I'm having a lot of fun trying. I know Necromancer's excel with higher curses, and I know I'd do more damage that way, but as odd as this sounds I don't feel like I'm actually doing any of it. I'm just causing it to occur which isn't as much fun for me.

I know I'm trying to balance more then I should, and a straight Curse line would do more damage, but I'm trying to find a happy medium between all out damage and how I like to play.

How do you link skills like that? Thanks again for all the tips!

cerick · Feb 13, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Vishnu I have read the other posts and I’ll try to fill in what I feel people have missed.
I hope you actually read this post.

1) You really need to just take the time and read through Guildwiki. This game isn’t really complicated by any means, but it does require a certain base level of knowledge to excel. After that take the link to PVX and look at the builds for PVE that are rated at 4.0+

2) Necromancers are great characters in GW, they make for very powerful niche players. First off they make the only good true minions masters. Damage builds based on a Spiteful Spirit/cursing builds have been powerful since day one. And support builds based on Blood is Power are very useful. And if you feel like a change later on, healing builds on them can be effective because of the energy gain from soul reaping. To answer your concerns, they don’t and never did make good elementalists.
3) Many spells that cause AOE (area of effect) cause mob to scatter. Not all do like Spiteful Spirit, but spells like Fire Storm do as you have found out. If you want many AOE spells to work to full effect you need to use snares. A generic example of this is Meteor Storm+Deep Freeze.
4) Getting all your prophecies characters infused is a must. You can infuse you armor in the Iron Mines of Moladune or Ring of Fire missions. This is a permanent protection from the Mursurat skill spectral agony.

VishnuOdin · Feb 13, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Thanks for the heads up, I knew about the Wiki but had never heard of PVX before. Found this link which I'll definitely go through;

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Category...ing_PvE_builds

I know it probably seems like I'm disregarding some of the recommendations that have been given to me. Let me assure you that is not the case. I'm a firm believer that there isn't one build for everyone, in every game I've played I've used guides to follow a general build (talent tree's in WoW as an example), but in the end I've never used exactly what they said.

There are a lot of factor's outside of a build that come into play. How do you approach an enemy? Do you charge in or do you play defensively? How do you orientate your team when attacking? Do you pull, flag, or just start attacking? What spec are the other players in your team? What role do you indent to fulfill in a group?

Again I sincerely appreciate the time you've all spent helping me with this. If I don't take the exact build you recommend don't take that as me thinking I know more then you. It only means that I find it easier or more fun to play that way

Voodoo Rage · Feb 13, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

There are lots of PvE skills you should at least try out and see if you like. Some of my favorites (full disclosure, I usually play NM):

[Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] - This guy is awesome. Hit your target with mark of pain followed by the assassin. His first attack will knock your target over and interrupt them AND activate your Mark of Pain.

[Technobabble] - Even a few seconds of daze is very powerful. Your ebon assassin will usually have your target shut down long enough to take them out.

[Summon Naga Shaman] - He spams stoning which will knock down if they are weakened from your Enfeebling Blood (which should be on your bar).

[Pain Inverter] - Does insane damage to any foe that casts AoE spells. This will nearly clear out the Great Destroyer and many other bosses in a single hit.

[Necrosis] - If your bar lacks a spammable skill you could do worse than 80+ armor ignoring damage.

As I have said before, if you are using Mark of Pain and Barbs, bring a Curses focus and a SPEAR (and be sure to hit spacebar). You will be amazed how effective you can be triggering your own hexes. Heck, all of my heroes carry foci and spears too. Be sure any spear you use has a PHYSICAL head on it or it won't trigger (I like to use a Silencing head to eke out as much daze out of my Technobabble as I can).

Voodoo Rage · Feb 13, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anwyn

Something I've been having alot of fun with lately is [Barbs][Mark of Pain][Assassins Promise][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support]

Now I know you don't have Factions, so [Assassins Promise] is out for you... But still, [Mark of Pain] + [Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] is still very cool...

Replace [Assassins Promise] with [Spiteful Spirit] instead...

Also, drop death... As a necro you need to choose, death, curses or blood... Mixing the three is a no go... Full Curses easily owns a mix between the three...

Can he cap [Assassins Promise] from Rekoff Broodmother even without factions?

EDIT - Nevermind, I forgot that you can't even BE an Assassin secondary (or Ritualist) without Factions.

VishnuOdin · Feb 13, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Looks like I need to do some work in EotN

I don't have very many PvE only skills from there yet, but is definitely something I'll start working towards.

From the sounds of it removing Snow Storm is my best choice, I love the spell effect and it does decent damage but as a few of you pointed out it's preventing a lot of my curses from performing as well as they could. The main reason I was trying to keep it was to have two direct damage spells I could rotate when mob's are close to dying, at that point it seems like a waste to curse since they use more energy and will only run for a few seconds. I see your point though, with some practice I should learn to keep a step ahead of the tanks and use the spread to my advantage.

To be honest this technique never really occurred to me before I started trying new combination's, my previous build was working so I figured why mess with a good thing? Working, yes. Well? Not like this. My apologies to those who were saying this all along, until I started changing how I played I didn't understand what you meant because it was so different from what I'd been doing all along. Before I just substituted damage spells for curses and kept playing the same way, which obviously doesn't work. Now I'm starting to see what you really meant

I plan to purchase Nightfall once I've completed Prophecies, but I want to make my way through the full game before I start poking around in another.

I'd like to keep my Death Magic as high as possible, lots of minions / Ebon Assassin with Barbs / SS / MoP turns me into a maniacal steam roller, and with my friend nuking large groups are getting a lot easier to handle.

Do you think it's a bad idea to use two Superior Runes? My thought was this would be a good way to up my Curses and keep Death Magic at 16. If I replace Snow Storm with Glyph I can safely drop Soul Reaping down. With a few rune upgrades I could hit about 450-475h, is that too low if I keep myself out of harms reach? I'd be okay now, but I'm wondering if it will be later.

Thanks again! Got some reading to do and lots of new combination's to try out

Xenomortis · Feb 13, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I'd recommend against 2 superior runes. -75 hp is bad enough, but -150 is absurd.
Then again, I'd recommend against speccing into both Death Magic and Curses like this, but hey.
If you do do this, I'd say go for two Major runes, as it's a much more managable health loss and as the game gets harder, you'll feel the pain of a low max health.
I'd also avoid going below 10 or 9 with Soul Reaping, as you're weakening one of the Necromancers main advantages in a PvE setting.

Snow Storm and Deathly Swarm are probably the best to get rid of. Replace them with other curses or something, because Cold damage really does become weak later on (I'm mainly talking about Hard Mode here though - in Normal Mode it will do fine throughout most of it, but then anything will really).
You shouldn't really need Glyph of Lesser Energy, but I suppose since your return from SR only just matches your minion costs, casting spells on top may start to hurt your energy.

**Marty Silverblade** · Feb 14, 2009, 12:35 AM // 00:35

450-475 health is way too low. My casters usually run around with at least 600. When you get to HM, stuff is going to drop you in one hit if you run around with that little health.

VishnuOdin · Feb 14, 2009, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Someone mentioned using a spear to add more health and also trigger Barbs. Where exactly do I get one? I've never seen one drop, are they an item you have to purchase or I have not reached an area where they drop yet? The only place I haven't been to yet is the fire island zone.

I'm going to buy the 4 quest expansion lore pack in a week or two, I guess that will give me some nice free gold weapons to use.

I'm going to start experimenting with how I can reduce SR and still cast non-stop. Glyph really helps with this since most of my skills cost 10-15 energy.

If 600 is the standard I'll make sure I'm as close to that as possible. Thanks again!

Hanging Man · Feb 14, 2009, 04:11 AM // 04:11

like everyone else has already said

don't spread out your attribute points so much. Stick to one, maybe two areas. Curses is always a well rounded and deff makes things go boom. Death is ok, but death usually involves minions which I can't stand running, let my heroes do that.
two superior runes is not a smart choice.
usually stick to minor runes, the +2 to an att isnt worth the -75hp your getting.
Abuse all the PvE skills Eotn has to offer.

Also a good idea is to check out what enemies are in what area your going into. This way you can switch up your build to make it more suitable for that area.

Xenomortis · Feb 14, 2009, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by VishnuOdin

Someone mentioned using a spear to add more health and also trigger Barbs. Where exactly do I get one? I've never seen one drop, are they an item you have to purchase or I have not reached an area where they drop yet? The only place I haven't been to yet is the fire island zone.

I'm going to buy the 4 quest expansion lore pack in a week or two, I guess that will give me some nice free gold weapons to use.

I'm going to start experimenting with how I can reduce SR and still cast non-stop. Glyph really helps with this since most of my skills cost 10-15 energy.

If 600 is the standard I'll make sure I'm as close to that as possible. Thanks again!

Spears only drop in Nightfall and Eye of the North. Not so often in EotN though. Really, they're a way of you being able to directly trigger Barbs and Mark of Pain, but it's only a small thing so don't kill yourself trying to get one.

600 Health isn't a necessary standard or anything. Aim for above 500 and you should be fine. 600 is a more desirable target for a Monk or something, but it's pretty high. If you can hit 550, you'll have few problems.